The Ground Zero Mosque Solution
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What would YOU do?
Like millions of other Americans I watched the Imam interviewed on CNN. And, like millions of other Americans, I was shocked and upset when the Imam stated that the mosque must be built as planned or the Muslim world would explode in anger! "But if you don't do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world," he later said, predicting that the reaction could be more furious than the eruption of violence following the 2005 publication of Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.
Later, as I flipped through the news channels, I saw a guy from Florida who wants a “Burn The Koran Day”!
Every day the road is being paved to another world war, and no matter what you believe in, if you are a human being, you want to avoid something like that at all costs. Yes, evil is alive and well and dwells within each of us, waiting to rear its ugly head. What can we do?
We can overcome our differences, and show the rest of the world that American can take a negative situation and turn it into a positive , loving solution!
This is my solution to this problem and it is very simple. Over and over the Imam asked “What would you do?” THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO!
Raze the strip clubs around ground zero and erect a Christian church , a Jewish synagogue, a Buddhist temple, AND a Muslim mosque, and on the roof top, (there would be one large roof spanning over all the structures) the Wiccans/Pagans could worship the moon, the stars and the realm of nature, in the nude if they so wish it. If I left out any other major religion here, I am sorry, it was not meant as a slight and of course that religion would also be welcomed to build their place of worship along with the others.
This complex would truly then be a place of inter-faith....not just a mosque with rooms for other faiths. After all, Pagans and Wiccans enjoy worshipping in the nude, would there be a place for them at the mosque? I don't think so.
These four structures would be separate yet connected with a roof over them all. In the middle, under the connecting roof there should be a memorial to all those killed on 911, (except the terrorists).
I believe the Muslim mosque should pay and erect that memorial to the victims of 911. It could be their way of starting the healing process between the Muslim world and the rest of America. This healing must take place or there will be the most dire of consequences on both sides. We can make this a win/win situation, and most of all the hate of bin Laden and those like him will no longer be allowed to fester and poison our society.
This inter-faith site could be a beacon of hope to the rest of the world. It would show everyone that America is different, that we can solve these problems and find love and respect for everyone. After all, that is what this country is all about.
This does not mean that I embrace Shariah/Sharia law in any shape or form. Muslims who practice that law in America will have to answer to our laws if indeed they commit a crime, and I will leave that for the authorities.
We have to find a way to defuse this situation, because the very last thing we need is more death and destruction stemming from 911.
Idiots like the preacher who wants to burn the Koran are just as bad as the terrorists and no normal person would even give him the time of day. He is just running off his big mouth because he is high on his 15 minutes of fame. No one, and I mean no one has the right to destroy the sacred texts of others. That is just asking for trouble! It is calling for blood.
We are all in this boat together, and we have to find a way where we can all live in peace together. If one more person dies because of 911 then we have failed and bin Laden has won, and no one wants that.
Correction! Below is bin Laden's exact quote-
" We love death. America loves life. That is the difference between us."
I think that says it all.
Should the ground zero mosque be built as planned?
See results without votingDo you believe building a mosque at ground zero will bring peace between America and the Muslim world?
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An interesting solution for a difficult problem. I do believe we need to show restraint and tolerance and this country was founded on avoiding religious oppression... but we also get too sensitive to some of this. When the rest of the world burns a bible or a picture of one of our presidents you don't hear anyone in America saying we are going to go and just kill a bunch of people because of it. People can be upset and voice it but when you start harming other people, often people not involved at all in the dispute - a line has been crossed and THOSE people need to take the blame for their actions. There is rarely a justification for violence unless it is in self-defense.
Of course that would be a great solution, unfortunately it is not going to happen. The mosque will be built as they planned. I disagree with Pastor Jones's idea to burn the Koran, but I understand his attempt to protest against building Ground Zero Mosque. Because obviously regular protests (and I participated in one of them in June) don't work! So basically we have to choices: continue to be political correct and be silent while muslims or anybody else do whatever they want or fight against it. I personally think that political correctness will eventually kill this country.
An interesting, to say the least, way of looking at this situation. I have to stop right here as good old Rev. Jones was planning on burning the Koran for the sake of burning it. Now it's being twisted to seem to represent him doing it in opposition to the mosque that is going to be built next to where the towers stood.
It is JIHAD nothing more and nothing less than the imam raising the terrorist flag over the ground conquered by the act of mass murder this date but back in 2001. Next they'll want one at the Pentagon and then buy and build another in the field where the last of the jets went down. It really is getting ridiculous.
If it is correct, that is the polls, say 70% of New York City's population says OK but not where it is proposed, then the answer is simple. A petition put together and signed by as many folks that it requires. Then brought before the city council and mayor to legally, and peacefully stop it's construction at so called ground zero. After all this is a Republic of laws and procedures that allows the Democratic process of majority rules. Just like blocking a porno store from being built next door to a school or church.
The worries of the few getting mad and exacting violence should not be allowed to "win the day" by holding America hostage with the threat of violence. The sad fact we have an acting president bless the mosque and then condemn a book burning is quite sad. One act is no better than the other.
This game of "political correctness" will eventually crash our great Republic and all that it once stood for. I as a Marine served under the flag of this country, and I believe as I did then the good old declaration of "THESE COLORS DON'T RUN". I'm just one but I'm ticked off at the predicament that political correctness has placed this country in. I would gladly give my life in the name of Jesus Christ if it would stop the mosque. America needs to wake up and stop bowing to these terrorists, thanks for a decent prospective on a serious problem, 50
Eutopia is just around the corner magnoliazz. Perhaps a rich philanthropist would like to finance your multi-religious shrine. And some superb architects could work together. Great Idea!
Quickly, send this Hub to Obama and to spiritual leaders.
Wow girl, you sure have stured up some controversy with this hub! This is quite timely and well writen hub!
USJag unless the reporter who was granted an interview with Osama is a liar and his camera men and interpreter are as well then the statement is correct.
There may not be an URL but if you watch the video documentary of that interview Magno is correct in pointing it out. " The difference between us is that we love death and AMERICANS love life." Bin Laden made it clear he stands behind the destruction of AMERICA.
America needs to take the stand that Australia takes, if you come to our country, you abide by our laws, if you don't like them, you stay out of our country. Australians are not bending to your will.
Americans should not be held up for ransom by any religious group with threats of war against them for not allowing that religious group to build their holy buildings on American soil.
If you can't live peacefully in the USA and if you won't round up the radical/fanatics within your religion then you are not acting responsible, but supporting those radical/fanatics. Therefore your mosques or any other religious building should not be allowed to be practiced or erected on American soil.
If you can not live in peace in America then you should not be allowed to live in America, very simple solution.Immigration laws need to be severely tightened up in both America and Canada and it can't come soon enough.
For all those who doubt the bin Laden life and death quote....go and google "bin Laden life and death quote"...you will see numerous websites that will verify it.
Actually the quote was...
“We love death. The US loves life. That is the difference between us two.”
Thank you Saddlerider1 to be the only person backing me up in this.
Thank you all for leaving a comment here, if you were at my other hub about the Grounmd Zero Mosque, you know how I really feel about this.
I am SURE Muslims would never agree to buidling next to other faiths. When the Imam said his mosque was inbter-faith, I did not buy that in a moment. That statement made me laugh out loud.
And YES US JAG, I watched the Imam interview on CNN, and that is exactly what the Imam said...That the Muslim world will explode in anger if the mosque is moved to a different location, which means the same to me as it has to be built where they want it built or else.
Actually, that feels like blackmail to me, and I don't like it one bit, but on the other hand, I don't want anyone else getting killed because of 911. Enough people have died.
50 Caliber, I thank you especially for your comment and your offer to give your life in the name of Jesus to halt the ground zero mosque. You and men like you are the reason we have this country and this way of life today. No one living in mud huts around here like they do in the Middle East.
I agree with you, it is a Jihad. Believe me, the Muslims around the world pretty much hate us. Of course the American Muslims for the most part are okay, its those who live in other countries who are the problem, because they are not only Muslims, they are Arabs too, and all Arabs have it in for us because Israel is our ally.
Its a wicked festering web. I just hope this can come to some kind of peaceful conclusion without anyone getting killed. That would be the greatest shame of all. That 911 could take yet another life. If that happens, the terrorist won.
Magnoliazz, here's another person backing you up in this statement made by Osama bin Laden. It's a matter of record that anyone can research if they wish and you don't have to look very far to find it. What I find fascinating is that these fanatics are smart enough to use our own values of fairness, compassion and democracy against us and then sit back watching while we hand over everything to them rather than violate our values. At some point, we have to say ENOUGH. When allowing freedom to others results in a threat to our nations, it's time to stop and take a stand. No, it's not democratic at that point but democracy is not perfect. In order to preserve our way of life, defence of democracy must be exempt from the democratic process. I'm also with Australia in this respect. We can all sit around and discuss once our nations are safe from threat but meanwhile, don't invite the enemy into the house!
Here we go again USjag/Terry/Steve8millier!
How much did you smoke today? Once again, you are not making any sense at all! You are the only one who did not understand where Saddlerider1 was coming from.
You are getting to be more and more of an aggravation everyday.
USJag, terry, steve8miller...all the same guy. Your comments are no longer welcome here. You are not making any sense. You are nothing but a troublemaker. Take your mentally ill mind elswhere.
The Imam stated ""But if you don't do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world,"
What part of this do you NOT get USjag?
Why don't you give up smoking pot, your brain is rotting away.
Usjag, your comments will no longer be posted on my hubs.
Go Away!
LOL..UsJag/ Terry/Steve8miller al the same guy..
I thought you would be back by now!
Just keep typing, get it all out...maybe there is a decent human under all of that after all. Why do you enjoy being so nasty?
And to think...there was actually a time I liked you and even stuck up for you...more than once too.
Here's another voice to back you up as well. I believe the mosque is a horrible idea. They claim the mosque is intended to better relations with Americans, yet, have no consideration for the feelings of Americans. They don't care that building it at this location is a major insult so their claim that this is about relationships is bunk.
It they truly cared about working on bettering the relationship with the American citizens, they would know that this insult is not the way to go about it. Sure they have the right, but they obviously do not have the tolerance not to build it.
USJag... please just answer me one thing...the statement below was made by the Imam who wants to build a mosque near ground zero. What does this statement mean to you? And then, what does this statement IMPLY to you?
"But if you don't do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world,"
Thank you if you answer, maybe I will be able to understand why you think the way you do.
Thank you so much Joni for your comment, I appreciate it.
The Imam said he contacted families who lost loved ones. However, those who were contacted cannot seem to be found. One woman who lost a loved one was on CNN, and she almost moved me to tears. She kept saying, why do they need a mosque THERE? After all, let us not forget that gound zero is her brother's final place of rest.
Would a Muslim want a Christian church built over their grave?
That's why I wrote this hub, because the only way it would be fair to have a mosque in that location would be to have all the other chuches,temples and symbols of faith of those whose final place of rest gound zero is, represented.
There is simply no reason at all that this mosque has to be built there. It's insane, and if the Imam has one brain cell left he would have known the trouble around the world this entire thing would cause.
Steve8miller is also thatguy1987, as well as Terry and USJag. We've had to add Schizophrenia to his list of mental aberrations. Poor little schmuck.
In response to Gen David Petraeus' denunciation of Florida pastor Terry Jones' right to engage in a symbolic protest of the 9/11 attacks by burning copies of the Koran this Sept. 11, President Obama said: "Let me be clear: As a citizen, and as president, I believe that members of the Dove World Outreach Center, and Pastor Terry Jones, have the same right to freedom of speech and religion as anyone else in this country."
Gov. Charlie Crist of Florida lauded Obama's remarks, saying America is "a place where you're supposed to be able to practice your religion without the government telling you you can't."
New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg called Obama's words a "clarion defense of the freedom of religion" -- and also claimed that he had recently run into a filthy jihadist who actually supported the Koran-burning!
Keith Olbermann read the poem "First they came ..." on air in defense of the Koran-burners, nearly bringing himself to tears at his own profundity.
No wait, my mistake. This is what liberals said about the ground zero mosque only five minutes ago when they were posing as First Amendment absolutists. Suddenly, they've developed amnesia when it comes to the free-speech right to burn a Koran.
Weirdly, conservatives who opposed building the mosque at ground zero are ALSO against the Koran burning. (Except in my case. It turns out I'm for it, but mostly because burning Korans will contribute to Global Warming, and Lord Knows we need the benefits that will bring.)
Liberals couldn't care less about the First Amendment. To the contrary, censoring speech and religion is the left's specialty! (Any religion other than Islam, that is.)
They promote speech codes, hate crimes, free speech zones (known as "America" off college campuses), and go around the country yanking every reference to the Christian God from the public square via endless lawsuits by the ACLU.
Whenever you see a liberal choking up over our precious constitutional rights, you can be sure we're talking about the rights of Muslims at ground zero, "God Hates Fags" funeral protesters, strippers, The New York Times publishing classified documents, pornographers, child molesters, murderers, traitors, saboteurs, terrorists, flag-burners (but not Koran-burners!) or women living on National Endowment of the Arts grants by stuffing yams into their orifices on stage.
Speaking of lying dwarfs, last week on "The Daily Show" Bloomberg claimed he was having a hamburger with his "girlfriend" when a man came up to him and said of the ground zero mosque: "I just got back from two tours fighting overseas for America. This is what we were all fighting for. You go and keep at it."
We're fighting for the right of Muslims to build mosques at ground zero? I thought we were trying to keep Muslims AWAY from our skyscrapers. (What an embarrassing misunderstanding.) PLEASE PULL THE TROOPS OUT IMMEDIATELY.
But back to the main issue:
Gen. Petraeus objected to the Koran-burning protest on the grounds that it could be used by radical jihadists to recruit Muslims to attack Americans.
This is what liberals say whenever we do anything displeasing to the enemy -- invade Iraq, hold captured terrorists in Guantanamo, interrogate captured jihadists or publish Muhammad cartoons. Is there a website somewhere listing everything that encourages terrorist recruiting?
If the general's main objective is to hamper jihadist recruiting, may I respectfully suggest unconditional surrender? Because on his theory, you know what would really kill the terrorists' recruiting ability? If we adopted Sharia law!
But wait -- weren't we assured by Fire Island's head of national security, Andrew Sullivan, that if America elected a "brown-skinned man whose father was an African, who grew up in Indonesia and Hawaii, who attended a majority-Muslim school as a boy," the terrorists would look like a bunch of lunkheads and be unable to recruit?
It didn't work out that way. There have been more terrorist attacks on U.S. soil by these allegedly calmed Muslims in Obama's first 18 months in office than in the six years under Bush after he invaded Iraq.
Also, as I recall, there was no Guantanamo, no Afghanistan war and no Iraq war on Sept. 10, 2001. And yet, somehow, Osama bin Ladin had no trouble recruiting back then. Can we retire the "it will help them recruit" argument yet?
The reason not to burn Korans is that it's unkind. Not to jihadists, but to Muslims who mean us no harm. The same goes for building a mosque at ground zero; In both cases, it's not a question of anyone's "rights," it's just a nasty thing to do.
Once again American Tiger you make a great deal of sense. The preacher has every right to say he wants a Burn the Koran Day. My main concern was that some innocent kid over there defending our country could get killed because some Muslim is riled up over the Koran being burned. To me, it is not worth a human life. However, I know where the preacher is coming from.
You are right too, about all the other things that we do or don't do to upset the Muslim world and create more recruits into radical Islam. Does it feel like we are walking on eggshells that no matter what we do, these people hate us and will find some reason for a JIHAD?
We could bend over backwards and do everything they want, and there would still be hatred towards us because we remain Christians or Jews, or whatever....these people do not believe in religious freedom at all.
They hate us for what we believe in.
They hate us for not being the same 6th Century bigoted slave-trading backwards-thinking bloody-minded piggy-porkers that THEY are, Magz. And it's not as if they don't find reasons to war on their own "religious brethren" while they're at it.
They hate that we let our Women learn how to read, and express their female opinions. They hate that we elect our leaders democratically, and not based on their religious tenets. They hate that we tolerate.
An open minded society can easily accommodate closed minded individuals. A closed minded society cannot even countenance a single open minded individual. Mohamed understood that, and wrote the death of infidels deeply into his teachings. A good Muslim who asks too many questions is in danger of loosing his faith, and might have to die. Lest the disease of Asking Questions spread to other men.
"If it ain't from the Quran, it ain't Quorect."
"Faux" News is the popular liberal insult, you idiot. Honestly. DID you qualify for the GED??
And YOU, USJag(off), are everyone's favorite Useful Idiot, the dupe I call Brainiac. As proof: The USJag(off) personality never read or commented on Magz' "No Mosques" hub, so how is it he can address it, when he has only just discovered HubPages?
Quit ganging up on Magz, you schizophrenic cretin. Just because she's discovered you to be the witless little lib-tard I've always known you to be, is no reason to inflict your venomous little self on her.
Feel free to talk all the smack about me you like; I've had years of experience dealing with the Libelous Left, and you're of no more import than a fart in a hurricane. Not that that isn't an apt comparison.
Leave Magz Alone.
This is a rather simple situation to me and while I appreciate that you would love to make this a community affair of healing and coming together, I really do not see that happening. The agenda involved on the part of the Imman has nothing to do with interface with other religions nor would they welcome the nearby presence. At the same time, this is America. We were the country that was attacked. We lost 2,977 innocent people who did nothing at all to Muslims or the Islamic faith. We have asked nothing of them in light of those deaths except that if they plan to be in America, come in peace. I am sick and tired of folks coming to our door and telling us what we have to do to keep from upsetting them. I will repeat it, this is our country. This is our culture. Those victims of 9-11 are our people. We owe no one anything in light of that tragic day except a damn good ass-kicking and more. On that basis, don't show up at Ground Zero telling anyone that you are here to heal things by building a mosque that spits in the face of the tragedy. If indeed you are truly interested in America and wanting to heal the void with America, then find a viable alternative to offending the survivors of those victims. Frankly, as an American, as a former member of the U.S. military, and as a concerned citizen, I find it offensive that anyone would come into our house and suggest that we might upset someone by opposing a mosque at ground zero. We are Americans and by God we will not live under the fear of veiled threats from anyone. It's just that simple. WB
Nice to see an intelligent comment WB...
"We have asked nothing of them in light of those deaths except that if they plan to be in America, come in peace."
There have been suggestions on this thread that the Muslim community are not complying with our laws and one recommendation that immigration rules to changed as a solution.
I'm still wondering what America Muslim citizens are doing where they are not complying with laws - as far as I can see, nothing. I never got an answer with any sense, tho that's nothing new - there prob is no answer :-)
The fuss over the NY scenario was not even an issue until it became politicized by one particular person who continues to rant and down all discussion, even on TV.
It is unfortunate that human garbage (representing both sides) considered it was appropriate to have their pathetic protests over a "non-mosque" on the 9/11 anniversary day. Finesse, subtlety and culture sure is not our forte :-)
I have had occasional experience of the treatment of people originating from eg Pakistan who immigrated to the US. I remember checking our factory at opening time and noticed an elderly lady quietly sobbing at one of the machines and trying not to be noticed :-) We moved to a more private place and I was asking her why she was upset? This dear old lady, who would not harm a soul in her life and expressed nothing but goodwill for everyone, was spat on and "ruffled" on her way to work by ignorant redneck trash - not for the first time. This is an example of how gracious we can be in the treatment of people who are other than white - she was from Pakistan originally - and this was years before 9/11 was ever heard of. Judging by the most recent frenzy, racism and hatred is still thriving.
I tend to agree that there is not going to be any plans for anything at that particular location - tho not necessarily because of rants, but more related to the business and finance end. At the moment the property is owned by a developer who has a interest in getting as much money as possible. I'm sure it would make a nice whore house on first floor, a cult sect on second floor, a gay massage parlor on the third floor, teabag central on the fifth floor and a memorial to 9/11 on the sixth floor - at least it's in keeping with the area :-)
What I have always loved about America is Freedom. I have worried since 9/11 that we have willingly given up some freedoms. Just go on a flight and you will feel the difference. Anytime we restrict a freedom, we all lose something. I don't want an expanded mosque near 9/11 but as I understand it New York zoning laws allow it. We lost many lives on 9/11 but since 9/11 I am afraid we have lost our way. If we fundamentally change as a Country they win.
Thank you so much for your comments Wayne!
I agree with you 100%! I feel like we are being blackmailed, pure and simple.
We would see their true colors if we wanted to build a church next to their ground zero mosque, believe me, they would be "exploding in anger" all over the place.
The Imam should have known better too. He should have been more sensitive to the families who lost a loved one.
STEVIE/usjagoff...you belong in a mental hospital.
You hide behind all your weird names, you are not even man enough to be real.
Do you really think we cannot figure you out, you give yourself away, time after time.
I am not violating any copyrights. If I am , they would ask me to take the pictures down, and I would certainly do so.
I have been on hubpages for over 2 years and you are the first nasty and immature person I have come across. Your total ugliness really ruins things. Never have I come across anyone like you on Hubpages.
Now you act like you don't know who American Tiger is. After you slandered him time and time again with your disgusting made up lies. You sicken me, you really do! When i read what you wrote about American Tiger I knew you were unbalanced.
You have the same mindset that terrorist have. You can't take it when someone does not agree with you. All you can do is rant like the idiot, pot head that you are.
I disagreed with American Tiger over and over again, but because we are mature adults, we do not have a problem with that. In fact, many times American Tiger has brought me over to his point of view because he is more knowlegeable in many things than I am. He simply tells me his point of view and points out certain facts and leaves me to my own devices. Lots of people like and respect American Tiger and found what you said about him sick and offensive. You USJag are offensive and sarcastic....and immature. I could go on and on, but why waste my time?
We are all adult here who respect each other. Obviously, that is something you have yet to learn. You show your us how immature you are over and over again. GROW UP!
Magnoliazz- I was asked to come by and say a few words. You may or may not remember that I was one of the first commenters on your other Mosque hub. I didn't agree with your way of thinking and I said some pretty harsh things. I apologize for anything rude or assuming words that my big mouth may have said. I still disagree with most of your views regarding this issue but as I have been following the posts on both Mosque hubs, I find the constant bullying and harrassment from UsJag and others, in whom both you and Tiger claim to be the same person, to be disgusting and sickening. If they or he, does not like what you have written or disagrees fully, as he, they do, then they have the right to not come here and read or engage in it. From the little I know about you, you are a caring and loving person and I do not believe that your dislike for the Muslims is coming across to people in the way that you really want to convey it. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think, and I could be wrong, that you are only trying to be a good American by honoring the 9/11 victims and feel that it is a slap in the face to put a Muslim related structure near the victims resting place since it was Muslims that were the perpetrators. Now of course the Muslims have the right to put one there, if they are American, but the question really is, Is it the right or honorable thing to do? As an American I would say no. It is disrespectful and painful to the victims families and this country as a whole since we went to war and have lost many lives and freedoms, due to this one event, in many different types of ways. America HAS changed since 911 and that's a fact whether we like it or not. Having the right to do something doesn't make it the most practical or smart thing to do. I have the right to bang my head into a brick wall over and over as many times as I want to, however, I don't think that it is the smartest thing to do.
I realize that marketing your hubs is important to you because you are trying to make money. I suppose many people are on hub pages for that reason. You wanted to get traffic and right now the Mosque situation is a hot topic, so I understand the far out title in your other hub or rather the reasoning for it. To get people to check it out. Not to mention, we know that contraversy sells. But, along with that, you have followers that have percieved you to be a certain way from your other hubs and such drastic opinions out of nowhere is going to cause a stir in some people, including myself. It is clear and you have said so yourself that you do not know much about the Muslims or this subject. So please understand that when you make an outrageous statement that is out of left field, some people are going to voice what they know to be fact. When you can not answer a question it angers people because a writer of a hub should know the facts of what they write about. Otherwise simply state at the beginning that this is merely an opinion hub and I don't know a great deal of the facts as of yet. UsJAG disagrees strongly with your opinion, as do I, instead of just accepting this he feels the need to challenge you on every little point. I merely said my view, said what I thought of you, was offered a first class ticket to an Islamic country of my choice if I surrendered my passport (thank you again, American Tiger) I am truly astounded at the length of your generosity) LOL. And then I left it alone. what is the point of arguing as to who is right? We are both right because we are both allowed to have an opinion in America. Does Jag think he is going to convert your way of thinking? If so, he is going about it all wrong.
UsJags- threats will get you nowhere. Except maybe jail. It is evident that you will not persuade Magz to your way of thinking. There is no need to get hot headed over this. She has stated that she cares deeply for the women in Islamic countries that have be subjected to rape and mutilation. She may not know what the full extent of Shariah Law is but she is really oposing the brutal treatment that women and children recieve who ARE practicing Shariah law in their country. For me, the way she related Sharia law in the other hub, sounded as if it were going to be practiced in America by American Muslims. I found that to be unreasonable, as our constitutional law overrides any religious law. Judges do take a criminals religious law into consideration during sentencing. But it is only consideration to understand more fully why the crime was committed. It really has no bearing. Many things that Magnoliazz said were contradictory which only shows that she is torn on certain points of this issue. That does not give us the right to badger her or condemn her. If we really care and are concerned about Magz way of thinking, we will leave her alone to discover for herself the truth and misconceptions that media and others might be imposing on her for their own agenda. If you are out to prove who is right and who is wrong, then arguing and bashing will continue and no good result will come out of this situation. UsJag, you are a smart person. Stop this childish bickering. There is enough hate in the world already. Nothing grows unless it is fed and truth always prevails.
Magnoliazz- I am glad you are using the money you've made from these hubs for your animal shelter. Knowing this makes it all worth it. Something good IS coming out of this contraversy after all.
Hi There Lisadpreston! I am happy you came back. You probably think I hate all Muslims...I don't! I have the greatest compassion for Muslim women, and every time another one comes to America, I think great...because then at least she has a chance of getting away IF she is in an abusive relationship.
Of course there are plenty of women in America who are in abusive relationships too. I am not saying we are better than Muslim countries, not by a long shot.
I think we will be hearing more and more about Sharia law, and that's great! I am no expert on it, I based my hub on what a Muslim woman wrote about it. I think we have to go to the source to really understand what is going on.
Thanks again for stopping by and leaving a comment. You have every right to state your opinion and I respect you even if we do not agree.
Ok Steve, I cannot prove that you are all these people, and I no longer want to go on like this. And, yes you are right, these other people have completely different IP addresses too.
This whole thing got out of hand, and I will be the first to admit that I did not act like an adult. And I have to admit, you have never been "out there" like that USJag guy. That guy was just pure evil, and he is not even a hubber to begin with. Perhaps he just wanted to cause trouble amongst us.
I am happy you do not carry a grudge, I don't either. We may not agree on certain things, but we can still respect each other.
Thank you for meeting me half way here Steve, I appreciate it...it says a lot about your character.
God's blessings to you too.
jeez...maybe tonight I will get some sleep, that's how upsetting this entire thing has been to me.
This whole situation reminds me of the Movie made in 1961 "A Raisin in the Sun," Sidney Poiter was in it. It was a powerful movie about family, pride, manhood and racism.
This black family bought a home, which was in a white neighborhood. When the community discovered that, "negros" were moving in, they all got together and raised twice as much money as the house was worth,to offer the black family, not to move in their community.
When the real estate agent came to the poor black family's home to offer them the check, not to move in. The matriarch of the family insulted said, "I won't take money from nobody who feels that I am not fit to walk on God's green earth!"
Don't hold your breath looking for options. I believe the Muslim are going to move in!
Thank you 2besure for your comment.
I think this is a real catch 22, no matter what happens now, someone will be upset.
Yes, I believe the mosque will be built and if it comes to past that it is, I hope that people will accept it and there will not be any more blood shed on either side.
There is one thing I hate above all others and that thing is human pain and suffering. Nothing is worth that.
I do not think that you hate all Muslims. At first I thought that you did and I thought that you were saying that all Muslims were a threat and out to get us. I just can't judge a whole religious community based on the actions of 12 or so people. The Muslims by birth that I know are very American. As much as you and I. My friend Farhad is the kindest man, well in the top 5, that I have ever known. When i was at one of my low points in life, he helped me when nobody else would. I had no car and he would take me to and from work everyday, free of charge. He bought me groceries, cooked meals for me and my kids, offered for all of us to live with him even though he only had a small 1 bedroom apt. He fixed my sons cars, and pretty much would do anything in the world for anybody. He never even practiced the Muslim religion. It was the year 2001 that I met him and he said that (at that time) the Iranians loved Americans. He said they admired us and a lot of the country had adopted Western culture such as fashion and attitude and way of life. He vacationed in Turkey a lot and loved that place. He said they really love Americans and most practice Western culture there. You don't have to practice the Muslim religion in modern times in all Islamic countries. Those that do, are very moderate and it is the few radicals that give Muslims the bad press. Look how long we've had Muslims in this country and never heard a peep out of them. Hell, I forgot Muslims lived here before 911. They never cause any trouble and just work and keep to themselves. As a whole, they are probably the most peaceful group we have here in America. Minus the few radicals.
You did force me to investigate some things like Sharia law. Our differences are causing me to learn and that is important. As Tiger says, "How can I learn anything if everybody agrees with me"? Talk to and read about more than one Muslim woman. The woman you speak about has been in America since 1976. She only experienced a short childhood in Islamic culture. things have changed drasically since before 1976. Also consider what her personal and political agenda is. Who is behind her pulling her strings? Always look deeper than the surface. You will be amazed at why people do and say what they say and do and the timing of it as well. I'm a reporter. Statehouse reporter. Trust me when I tell you these things. I cannot always tell you why or how I know but I would never lie to you. Don't always believe the media hype. It is done for a reason. Investigate everything for yourself. I respect you enough to be honest with you as much as my job will allow.
You will be fine, we all will be fine. Don't let fear rule you. Keep love in your heart. It is all of the protection you will need.
Thanks Magz. It's all good. Keep up your great writing on other subjects than this one. lol Seriously though, this is a highly controversial subject. We already discussed it on my hub on the topic. Thanks again, good luck and GOD bless.
Thank you so much Lisa for this last comment. You made some great points. Your Muslim friend reminds me a lot of a black woman who was our housekeeper and babysitter when I was a child. She was the most wonderful person! There is not a day that goes by that I do not think about her. She shaped my ideas about black people in a very positive and loving way, as your Muslim friend did with you.
You make a lot of sense too, I based my ideas about Shariah Law from a handful of Muslim women. I am no expert on this law. If this law is a problem, I am sure that sooner or later that will come out too. Either way, that does not make all Muslims bad people. There are very few Muslims in the world who are radical....but the squeaky wheels always get the grease and of course the attention. It just the nature of human beings.
There is good and bad in all people. Muslim Americans saved us from another 911. However, we hardly ever hear about that, we only hear what is negative.
Thank you once again for your comment, it really made me stop and think. Your views are always welcome on my pages.
From now on, I will try to present a more balanced point of view. Thank you Lisa for making me see how important that is!
Dearest Magnoliazz,
You have made tears run down my face. This is the beautiful soul that I remember. You are such a good person and your willingness to see others in a different light and not follow the crowd is so beyond admirable that words cannot explain it. I wish you knew how happy you have made my heart tonight. It is hard for human beings to admit when they are even a little bit wrong or that they may have made a mistake. Being able to do this is what seperates the men from the boys and the girls from the women. Do you know the strength it takes and courage to own up to any kind of falacy in our thinking? That is why people are so stubborn. They don't want to bend to any degree and must always be right. Everything that you said in your last post was correct and you said a mouthful about the squeaky wheel getting the grease. If we hear of one thing horrible in a small group of people or things, we lump them all in the same category. I am guilty of this myself. I never or rarely watch tv and especially the news. If you notice, the news never tells of the good things that have happened in the city. They only report every wicked, evil deed that they can find out there. New YOrk is a good example of people being frightened away from the city. We only heard of all of the crime being reported. We heard of overcrowding, rude people, no speaking to one another, and cold to anybody that looks at them. We weren't aware of all of the good things New York had to offer and all of the good citizens there who are friendly and how it is really a safe city. But the hype from the actions of a few made us fear an entire city. I know I was afraid. I said I would never go to New York. I thought I would be mugged walking down the street. I finally visited the place last month. New York is one of the most fabulous, safest and friendliest places I've been to. My believing the media hype kept me from an experience that was truly wonderful for many years. As you said, it is human nature.
I am so glad that you and Steve have made up. I felt like I was watching a soap opera. LOL. I've never seen you lash out at anyone like that before and I'm afraid that anothers opinion and belief may be trying hard to influence you in a negative direction. Just be cautious. You know how that misery loves company. It would pain me to see you sucked in by the negative people and forces out here in cyberland. You are too beautiful of a person to let something or someone overtake you. You're a strong woman and that is a gift that you need to continue passing on to others. Be the beacon of light in the world of darkness. It is your calling. It is a privilege to know you Magnoliazz and it would be an honor to call you friend.
Here is my hand
Let us walk away from the plantation of horror
and together
plant a field we can grow in
magnoliazz
The ‘’the Mission Statement ‘’that ‘’Park51 will become a model for future institutions, with its inclusive focus, outstanding facilities and dedication to social needs’’ may not meet the citizens expectations.
The argument is not about freedom of religion but the CONSTRUCTION of a religious structure in a sensitive location near a historical event- 911. The two are not the same for comparison. The constitution protects one and city regulations enforce the other.
There is definitely more to the story that hasn’t been told to the public. The normal process in the planning and zoning departments regarding zoning, ordinances and public hearings may not have been followed in the development of the project development. Politics as usual?
The news media reports that the funding has not been identified and the ownership participants have not been identified as yet. The above questions are a part of the process leading to approval of the plan to develop the mosque.
Without a doubt, public hearings should be an important step to answer the public’s questions. There is never a guarantee that a development can be approved without an open review of all documents prior to approval..
The mosque will come up for its first public hearing in November, after the proponents complete a traffic study recommended by the city.
“I can’t say I’m surprised that there is controversy about this,” Mr. Richardson said. “I’m probably a little more disappointed than anything.”
Mag, You go girl! The sad thing is that peace will never come. Look at history, Jews-Arabs, English-Irish, Indian-Pakistani, etc. Consessions: How many times has Israel given land for peace?
The only thing that is ever understood is POWER! Look what we did to Japan in WWll, a treaty was soon signed. They know we won't strike a country, for what a few did. They are under educated, with no hope for a future. These men are single, with no prospects in their society. They want to go to Paradise for their virgins, while they are probably virgins and will stay that way.
Nice word, H
Hello Again Lisa! Thanks for your last moving comment. You are a very kind hearted lady, and I agree with you about NY, its not a bad place where everyone gets mugged
Its a wonderful, very exciting place! I am happy that you got to visit one of America's greatest cities.
Yes, I am happy too that Steve and I are no longer fighting. It was like a soap opera, and I am ashamed of my part in it. Things got way out of hand. This is the first time I ever had a disagreement with another hubber, and I hope it will be the last too. That is not what I want to do on here.
I can't blame anyone else for my actions and I hope you won't either. I was not influenced by anyone, no...this was all my own problem.
And Lisa, more than anything, I am happy that you and I have found common ground. I have a network of friends on Hubpages who are dear to me, and I would like to keep it that way.
Dear JonEWall-Thank you for stopping by and leaving a comment.
You have brought up some excellent points, but I cringe at the idea that this issue is just warming up. This storm is partly the media's fault too. They more or less portray the Muslims as anything but American Muslims who want to build at ground zero...or is this just my perception?
November should prove to be an interesting month, to say the least!
magnoliazz
your welcome
''This storm is partly the media's fault too.''
The politicians including President Barak Obama making statements that should have been avoided until the P&Z committee completed the development process did awaken the public.Beware that there is a lot of politics involved.
Well the Mosque is right of the Muslims
And I also agree with Lisa Dpreston.
Hello Harvey!
Thank you for your interesting comment! Yes, I believe it is about power and saving face. I doubt they are afriad of us and our nuclear weapons, they probably think we will never use them. LOL...I have no idea where they get the 72 virgin thing! What happens to the virgins once they are no longer virgins? It give you a glimpse into their mind set and it is not pretty!
Thank you Jon for your comment, I agree with you.
Thank you Warrior for coming by and leaving a comment. I wish you would write a hub about Islam, it would be good to know your point of view.
It appears that the Muslims are not interested in becoming part of the American culture. They are acting like they want to use our country to transplant their culture to this country.
There is a need for the Muslims to distance themselves from the Muslims that attacked the US and killed thousands of people.
On the other hand, maybe having a Mosque there might protect the area from further Muslim attacks.
Nah, it didn't work in Iraq.
Hi Magnolia. Of course - just about anyone with money, who are law abiding should be able to build a Mosque, a church, a synagogue, etc. A lot of downtown Houston is owned by foreigners. America is so free in it's commerce that American businesses have enjoyed buying up entire countries almost. A lot of this situation is from being too free to "commerce" under any circumstances. Our ports were almost sold to Arabs.
Unbridled capitalism is a sin whether we do or "they" do it.
Most Muslims are "represented by Osama Bin Laden, the ex-CIA agent that the CIA interviewed just a couple months before 911.
Those towers came down from explosives pre-set. It's too plain to ignore. Too many "ifs" about all this. Why weren't bridges and trains attacked? People in some "high" places have profited "highly" from 911.
I'm 61 years old. No one can tell me the leaders of "my" America don't lie to me on an HOURLY basis. If our leaders would stop lying for one day and stand up for those beautiful words in that Constitution- it could bring better patriotism to our leaders.
Our "leaders" are lawyers nominated to run by lawyers. A lawyer's job is to find a way around a law for the good of mankind. Their jobs are to cheat and overturn "good laws" or any laws for money. Gee- I just give up - I just cannot figure out why our leaders lie! Duh! And the world cannot trust our leaders because I don't. I will hear it all the time so it ain't just Micky Dee. A lot of good patriotic people have said, "it's run by too many lawyers". Professional liars who in general are LIARS!
So what is the truth? Nobody really knows- but to ignore research, investigations, etc,. as in the case of 4,000 people being murdered on one day is inexcusable for GW Bush, Obama, and every American.
Our courts are a black sick joke. If one "does a search" for the falsely accused in this country- that search will NEVER end. Recently NC cases are again in question for atrocities by - LAWYERS!
I know some lawyers who are good people, as for as I know. But- where is their stance on this injustice that has been perpetuated since 1780?
The bottom line is none of us know who carried out 9-11. People who truly love God- believe in the Golden Rule. It's in every religion. For Christians, Jesus said these two laws are above all others: "Worship the true God. love thy neighbor as thyself". True people of faith did not commit those murders on September 11, 2001.
Every person, business, leader, and yes- every lawyer will absolutely DO UNTO OTHERS AS THEY WOULD HAVE DONE UNTO THEM! Yes- and every lawyer will drop on his knees to God and do the same if there is to be world peace. And regardless of my rose colored glasses- when our Jesus comes THAT will be THE law and there will be no lawyers.
We are brothers and sisters to the far corners of the world and our biggest commandment is to lift each other up! These "nay-sayers" that will laugh at Micky Dee or any other news carrier with this message are the defeated. They have no hope. Their trust is in my country, my religion, my family, my boss, my IRA, my car, ad nauseum.
This hate "thing" will beget hate. We are told by the greatest teacher, pray this prayer: Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, THY KINGDOM come ON EARTH as it is in heaven..." We pray that Earth will resemble heaven. Heaven doesn't have hate. Mine doesn't. When THAT prayer is prayed (and we are commanded) we are praying for civility and prosperity and all of God's blessings on everyone. There are no slaves. There are no masters. Earth is not here for devouring. We have our orders. Thank you Ma'am!
Thank you Duck and Mickey for stopping by and leaving a comment. I appreciate it.
I agree with you in some aspects Mickey, the more I hear about a New World Order the more I begin to wonder if indeed there is not some sinister force working against the common good of mankind.
We have a bloody history, is that by design? Maybe..people are beginning to believe it is all planned out.
Perhaps one day we will know...and then maybe we can live in peace.
Hi Magnoliazz
I spent the last hour reading this hub diligently A lot has been said All dimensions have been covered
I ll say what I like to say
First : I am from Pakistan Why dont Muslims organise a rally that will parade in New York to show support for People from different faiths ? that may alley fears of all thoes who view Muslims with fear
If I live in your country magnoliazz I would have definitely done some thing on my part to find a solution to this ugly situation
Waq -[pakistan ]
Hello There Waxi!
Thank you so much for stopping by and leaving a comment.
You make a very good point! The Americans Muslims have to reach out the rest of us in America, and let us know they will tolerate other faiths. Traditionally, Islam does not support other faiths, and thats what worries most Americans, because in this country, everyone can worship who or what they want in peace, religious freedom is very important to us all.
Another thing I thought about, people are born into a certain faith, and it is very difficult to go against tradition and what you have known from a baby on. I don't think God will hold it against us if we get some things wrong.
As a Christain, I believe in Jesus, but I do not put him before the father. God is supposed to be number One. In our Bbile it states ( somewhere, I have no idea where, I am no Bible scholar) but it states that no one, not even Jesus, know the day of his return to earth. I think that says that God is the one in charge, something that Muslim believe too.
I am sure we could all find a lot of common ground, and live in peace with each other's religion. After all, its what God would want.
Thanks again Waxi, perhaps one day you will make it the shores of America.
magz, I thought I had commented on this hub. So sorry. I know I read it. I know we feel the same by the comment you left on mine.
Thank you for having the balls to speak out and sticking to it.
You are one of my favorites. I will always look for you
Thanks gr82bme!
I like that fish too, its a real beauty!
At last! Someone speaking sense @magnoliazz. Good hub.
This idea might work. If the Wiccans start dancing naked on the rooftops let me know. That would be interesting to see. :D
These are lovely thoughts, but unfortunately Mosques are not just places of worship. Far from It! They are recruiting grounds for terrorists and training grounds for jihadists.Islam is not a religion exactly. It is an ideology and encompases all phases of Muslim life and it requires strict adherence to Sharia Law. If you are a true Muslim, then you follow Sharia Law.
Magz the multicultural center would be great - even if you have to get rid of the strip joints- BUT THOSE Places seem to be able to relocate pretty easily-it is a REALLY GREAT IDEA HERE MAGZZ and if another faith wants to get in on it- why not if they can pony up the $$ no one should have a problem other than the strip club folks....GREAT IDEA BRAVO keeps the pacifists and patriots happy
TH
I think this whole thing was staged. There are forces within the U.S. government and abroad that want to keep the American people outraged at Islam and the memories of 9/11 alive. Once anger swells to fever pitch, eyes will be taken off the ball, once again, and the American people will continue supporting this baseless war with its multi-trillion dollar price tag.
One has to understand the manipulative forces at work here. Divorce attorneys use the same ploy and understand that in order to bilk each client for all they can get, they must first move the respective parties to anger, such that their emotions bypass reason and become blind to the theft taking place right before their very eyes. This little public relations stunt with the mosque is no different.
Lone Ranger, I agree with you. Excellent insight. We are being played.
I have heard it said that nothing is what it seems, and I believe it.
You know, people base their opinions on what they hear on CNN or Fox, but how do we really know what the truth is if we are not there?
Control the media, and you can control the world.
Where is my lovely Edelweiss? Has anyone seen her? Please advise.
vrajavala 20 months ago
None of this hysteria about Pastor Jones would have happened if the media had just ignored him, just like they ignored the May 2009 burning of thousands of Bibles in Afghanistan.
I believe that the real intention of the Imam of ground Zero Mosque is stealth jihad.
Moreover, Islam is only a "psuedo-religion" quoting Malcolm X.